Friday 13 August 2010

Moderators of a medical forum hide safety warning about drinking what is effectively bleach

Yes, they really did. But let me give you a little background.

I love chemistry, so I'm going to start with the element chlorine. For the chemists, it's element no. 17, the second lightest halogen - you'll find it on the second-from-right column (called "Row 17") of the Periodic Table (not this Periodic Table, excellent as that is). There are some pretty good visual aids of the atomic structure here.

Each atom has a different number of protons, neutrons and electrons (please do scroll down if you already know this). The number of protons and electrons are the same. It's the number of neutrons and protons that determine the "big" stuff, for example in stellar reactions such as the Sun making helium from hydrogen - that determines the qualities of the element, as well as swaps around masses amounts of energy. The number of electrons is, effectively, the skin. That determines what the element does in more shall we say relaxed conditions, such as on Planet Earth, where lots of things change in a mundane way without (usually) nuclear bombs and so on.

This works because, although chemists will tell you that electrons are found in "probability clouds", these clouds have a rather well-formed structure that we can represent as shells, or layers, around the nucleus of protons and electrons. You can think of these like bookshelves longing to be filled up, too. The innermost one only has space for two electrons. The next two can hold eight. Now, an atom prefers that all its shells are filled up, and the closer it comes to this state, the more upset it gets - and the more eagerly it will rush to do anything to achieve this state, either by casting an electron off, or by snatching one. Chlorine belongs to the latter group.

Chlorine's outer "shell" has seven out of eight possible, and so it's always longing to get another one. Sodum, meanwhile, has one out of eight, so it's all too pleased to throw an electron off. So if a sodium atom meets a chlorine atom, the chlorine will snatch the sodium's electron. Now the chlorine has too many electrons. This means it's now a chloride ion, that it has a negative charge, and that correspondingly the sodium has a positive charge. This makes them stick together. That makes salt.

This kind of thing can happen with other elements, too, but chlorine is particularly eager to do it.

That's ionic bonding. Now what happens among non-metals, organic chemistry, and generally a great deal on this Earth, is covalent bonding. In this case, picture two chlorine atoms. They "share" two of their electrons. Although they've still only got seven electrons in their outer shell each, this "sharing" allows them a lot more stability. Not a great deal, though. Chlorine gas is very reactive.

It's a powerful oxidant, or oxidising agent. To oxidise something often means you add some oxygen, which is the case with rusted iron. What this oxygen does is steal some electrons. And that's what, in chemistry terms, "oxidising" really means - to nick some electrons. This of course changes the properties of whatever has been oxidised. It makes them want to bond with other materials, because they're unstable now. With fats in foods, it often makes them smell rancid. With iron, it makes it brown and flaky. With biological matter, it often completely screws it up.

That's why chlorine is often used as a sterelising agent in swimming pools, and why labels keep going on about "antioxidants" as a matter of safety as well as taste. And why it was used as a weapon, poisonous gas, in World War I. Oxidising is a nasty process.

And it's really not a good idea to drink the stuff. (Did anyone else do "An Inspector Calls" at school, in which Eva Smith drinks a bottle of disinfectant that "burnt out her throat"?)

However, a 15-year-old skeptic, Rhys Morgan, has been permanently banned from a medical forum for pointing out this danger to vulnerable people.

I first came across Rhys on Twitter when FerFrias introduced him to my homeopathy post. It was clear that he was exceptionally keen on what was real science and what wasn't, and what is good for people's health and what is just a belief, or indeed a scam. He suffers from Crohn's Disease, which I understand varies in severity but can be extremely nasty. I suffered from digestive problems for several years and had to deal with daily pain and nausea, sometimes non-stop for days on end. Rhys is extremely brave and optimistic about it, but he also knows how vulnerable people can be when they're ill, how they are driven to try absolutely anything for a cure.

He joined a forum for suffers of Crohn's disease and colitis - to exchange mutual support and medical information. There are many of such forums, but this one is called crohnsforum so is probably the first that most people find. Here he encountered a user who fervently encouraged his fellow forum users to use "Miracle Mineral Solution", abbreviated to MMS.

Look at that link a moment.

Yes, it says 28% sodium chlorite.

Just scroll up a moment and read back to what I wrote about chlorine.

Yes, sodium chlorite is not chlorine - but it contains chlorine and will easily let it go. It's also not sodium chloride, which is salt. A mere flick through the Wiki entry (which seems to have been thoroughly researched) reveals snippets such as: "Do not mix with organic chemicals in case of explosion" (such as . . . Your throat?); that it's used as an antiseptic (i.e. to kill germs) in mastitis in cattle; that it's used in the bleaching of paper; that "chronic exposure . . . could cause reproductive and neurodevelopmental damage"; and that it's an oxidant (see above where I mentioned oxidation reactions).

Not something I'd much fancy drinking, thanks. For more information on Jim Humble, its first advocate, check out this excellent blogpost by Noodlemaz (but finish reading this first, please, because you will get about as distracted as it's possible to get!).

However, a user on the forum of which Rhys was a member urged a user with a sore throat not only to drink this solution, but to continue drinking it when he said his thraot was getting worse. Drinking MMS makes you feel nauseous. I gather the reasoning is that the nausea demonstrates the removal of toxins.

I've often heard about toxins, and educated science students talking about detox. I have yet to hear what these toxins actually are, or how they could so suddenly be removed from the body, from where or to where. In his book "Bad Science", Ben Goldacre writes brilliantly about how, just as people used to wish for penance to "cleanse" themselves of their sins, the modern consumer longs for "detox" in a similar wish to feel somehow pure and good.

I've also read a book about self-harm, which makes it very clear how going through pain can often feel like an achievement. Not to mention articles which remark on how people can be quite competitive about how stressed they are. It sounds to me as if vulnerable people are being encouraged, effectively, to self-harm, and feel that the discomfort and indeed agony they go through is going to help them.

Besides all this being basically twisted, wrong, and not going to cure the person at all, it sounds bloody dangerous to me.

Rhys challenged this person and was on the receiving end of a great deal of public and private abuse for it. He was sworn at, for a start; he was also informed that "Big Pharma" should pay for medical trials because the poor little billion-pound complementary and alternative medicine industry can't afford them, that conventional medicine has problems (see "ARGUMENT FROM NECESSARY OPPOSITES (1)"), and that conventional medicine only contains chlorine.

All right, let's actually deal with some of these points. Why is it so expensive to do a proper medical trial? Again, read Ben Goldacre's book, which tells you in a very straightforward way how to do one. (I have some ideas on that and citizen science myself, which I hope to speak about at Skeptics in the Pub some time . . .) Also, the fact that you're too poor to test something for safety doesn't mean it's safe, or that you have any right to promote it. Trying to make others feel guilty is really not an argument!

As for the chlorine - recall the sodium chloride. You ever see salt turning into sodium and chlorine again, out of the school lab where you do electrolysis with a load of wires and rusty crocodile clips? No. Because chlorine's very reactivity gives it another important characteristic. Because it's so reactive, once it does make a bond it's "happy" with, it stays that way. The chlorine-chlorine bond isn't very strong - nor are the bonds in sodium chlorite - so they'll fall apart easily. But chlorine's very strenth can give it amazingly strong bonds. Once it's chloride - the negative ion - it's perfectly happy, and that's how it'll stay. You'll find chloride ions all over the world - they're the biggest component, after water, of sea water. I hope this makes it clear that, when pointing out the "such and such" uses chlorine, you need to be a tad more specific if you want to make a proper argument.

By now you might also be thinking: "Hang on, our stomach contains hydrochloric acid - that's half chlorine!" And the penny might also have dropped . . . yes - chlorine with different properties, again. The chlorine exists as the chloride ion, again, so it won't have the same effects at all as the sodium chlorite. The hydrogen exists simply as lone protons, having had their one electron "snatched". It's an extremely strong acid, designed to kill germs and bore ways into the food to make it more digestable. All that acid's later neutralised by bile from the gall bladder, so that the bacteria in your gut can get on peacefully with their lives.

Anyway, two of Rhys's threads have been deleted. However, the brilliant JoBrodie got them both off Freezepage! (Please be aware these might expire after 2 weeks.) In one of them he posted the official FDA warning against MMS, and was argued against vigorously on the grounds that conventional medicine also had problems. Rhys remarks that it is unsafe to urge someone whose health is clearly very poor to continue taking MMS despite hideous pain and discomfort, and is accused of "slander". Upon retrieving the conversation, he's accused of "taking the quotes out of context" and informed that "I have requested that you be banned".

In the other, Rhys asks why people on the forum are often so anti-science and anti-conventional medicine: he agrees that there are problems with it, but it's the best we've got. "I made an evidence based posting, not one even from a skeptical point of view, warning people about Miracle Mineral Solution," he wrote. "The forum's response? Trying to silence me, childish name calling and of course, blaming Big Pharma for the lack of medical trials on such unproven non-treatments."

After banning him permanently for his "attitude", both these threads were deleted.

Rhys tweeted: "It's disgustingly irresponsible that they deleted my post which was merely a link to the FDA warning page. They were willfully keeping others ignorant, by doing so." (Said tweets here and here.)

A forum moderator myself, I am stunned. Stunned that safety warnings were hidden; stunned that science was silenced. I can see that, in their uninformed view, Rhys was not being diplomatic; but seriously, the worst he said was "grow up", which is nothing compared to the abuse he's received. I suppose they felt that the majority must be right. But my God, deleting an official safety warning and making sure such vulnerable people remained in ignorance about what they were doing? I am so stunned I don't think I have any words. I don't think I need any, anyway. Rhys and his 30+ commentators say enough here!

He's been extremely active since then, calling Cardiff Trading Standards, who called him back with more information, and hopes to start a campaign to at least raise awareness of MMS even if it doesn't get banned. This bit I don't know much about, so we'll have to wait for that. I've predicted he'll be giving Skeptics in the Pub talks in a year or so, and have his own forum a year or so after that!

Let me just mention one or two more issues. JoBrodie quite rightly pointed out the issue of cliquiness. This often makes forums miserable and annoying, skews issue in favour of opinions that aren't necessarily correct, and if the moderators are involved, certainly leads to injustice. That's one cause - the effect is a lot worse. Another cause may simply be ignorance on the part of the moderators. As pretty well anyone can set up a forum, it must be exceedingly difficult for medics and scientists to keep track of them, let alone make sure that the right information gets out to the right people. Still, as forums grow large, and especially on such a responsible topic, shouldn't we at least try? Or would that mean a lot more regulation and stifling - and could that regulation and stifling indeed lead to more censorship of science, through officialdom rather than cliques? What do you think? Someone like me should know, but sadly I don't!

Another issue is the idea purported by some that MMS will sterelise unwanted organisms within the body. This is about as likely as a homeopathic remedy remembering the presence of arnica rather than whatever else the water has been in contact with over its billions of years of existence. Your digestive tract contains a huge number of microscopic organisms, most of them benign and indeed beneficial. The first place the sodium chlorite gets (apart from the poor throat) is, of course, the stomach, in which the strong acid attacks incoming bacteria. Adding chlorine is totally out of line with what the body's doing, and is at least as likely to attack your insides as any bacteria you don't want in there.

Well, I thought I'd go for the "sciencey" side, since a lot of people have covered this issue now - my favourite blogpost so far is Noodlemaz's (not the same one I linked to earlier). It was all over Twitter the other day - I wish I'd written about it sooner, but I've been a bit distracted - and retweeted by the likes of Ben Goldacre and James Randi. Rhys is famous!

He's done an interview for the Pod Delusion, will be a subject discussed by the SkepChicks, and has been contacted by a video production company in Yorkshire. When he said he was off to London, lots of us assumed it was to the BBC. Well done Rhys, and looking forward to seeing you at Cardiff Skeptics!

Now, who says 15 year olds can't do things?

20 comments:

Zeno said...

Alice

I have the cached pages in my Freezepage account, so they won't disappear:

http://www.freezepage.com/1281783940ZOWYZLZJFC

http://www.freezepage.com/1281543106NTWJWMNNVU

I think that's all there is, but if you know of any others, let me know and I'll grab them as well.

Kuly said...

Great blog post. If these people are encouraging ill people to make themselves sicker, that has to be stopped.

It actually made me laugh that the guy who claimed his 'MMS' bleach cures cancer and aids confused chlorine dioxide with carbon dioxide (talking about vinegar/ bi-carb reaction). That's how clueless they are.

Sounds like Rhys is summoning up a sh*tstorm - good on him!

Alice said...

I have received a note saying "not sure I agree with all the chemistry". If you spot any mistakes or lack of clarity, I'm open to all pointers!

RobertofBrisbane said...

I remember this article appearing on News.com.au a few weeks ago

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/213237-Death-in-paradise-poisonous-MMS-kills-Mexican-woman

and then I followed a link at the bottom to see this http://www.sott.net/articles/show/207531-Snake-Oil-Humbles-Nexus-Conference

Trinoc said...

Just a minor pedantic point, because it may get picked up by the pro-MMS crowd as a spurious way to dismiss the criticism: this stuff is Sodium Chlorite (NaClO2), not Sodium Hypochlorite (NaOCl).

Sodium Chlorite is used to generate Chlorine Dioxide (ClO2)as a disinfectant for water supplies etc., whereas Sodium Hypochlorite (household bleach) generates chlorine, also generally for disinfection. Both also act as bleaches, and if anything Chlorine Dioxide is an even stronger oxidising agent than Chlorine itself.

So, if anything, the situation is even worse than if people were being told to drink household bleach, but I'm sure the MMS proponents would jump on any little error so say "See -- the critics don't know what they are talking about", so we really ought to get it right.

Neuroskeptic said...

I suppose we should be thankful they're not recommending sodium chlorate.

Also, bets on how many people take MMS and simultaneously take mega-doses of antioxidants "to boost it"...

Alice said...

Thanks for pointing out the "hypo" I'd missed. I kept telling myself "It's sodium chlorite, not hypochlorite", but for some reason my fingers kept typing the hypo. It was driving me crazy. I must have had to write about sodium hyposomething in the past. I thought I'd got them all, but I'm very glad you picked up on where I hadn't! Thanks!

Alice said...

Neuroskeptic: ROFL!!!!!

Charlotte Sometimes said...

Scary is, that the person who advocates it on this particular forum, does so on a lot of different ones as well. If you google his username in connection to MMS, you'll be surprised.

Alice said...

Perhaps he's married to Dr Nancy Malik!

Some tweets from Rhys, who's in London at the moment and can't post a comment: "By the way, he IS peddling sodium hypochlorite too under the name mms2. He claims the bodies immune system USES sodium hypochlorite and that it's the basis for the immune system."

Medtek says: "Funny, I don't remember that from my Immunology classes."

I'm also getting a major telling-off from Cambridge Skeptics for starting at GCSE level and then trying to explain something more complex. I shall, to please him, clarify that chlorine and elements in its row usually have room for 8 electrons in their outer shell, but this is not the case for every element. :-) :P

John said...

Alice, I must say your grasp of how the human body works is extremely poor. First "why labels keep going on about "antioxidants" as a matter of safety as well as taste." as though it's something dangerous. It's the free radicals that attack atoms in the body and that are highly damaging to the DNA. Not the antioxidants. THEY REPAIR THE DAMAGE DONE BY FREE RADICALS!!!

Second, your body is comprised of 150 different types of cells, i.e.: skin cells, blood cells, nerve cells, etc that each have a different half-life of survival, and they constantly die and replace themselves throughout your whole life span. New cell generations are dependent on the building materials you fed. Your cells require the 90-plus nutrients that coming from nine different categories that are necessary to make the hormones, peptides, neurotransmitters and proteins for new cell growth and proper functioning of the body systems as a whole. If your missing any of these nutrients in your diet and/or either filling your body or exposing your body to the 24,000 toxins per day that on average your body is exposed to, the delicate balance which is indicated by your pH level is compromised (dropping in the acidic range) and your cells don't renew themselves properly and the communication between cells breaks down. Your body has 9 buffers (increase oxygenation, using amino acids or high pH body fluids or electrolyte buffers - calcium, magnesium, sodium and potassium, filter or eliminate through bodily elimination routes, manufacture bicarbonates, stealing minerals from other areas of the body, pushing acids to outer extremities and finally dumping acids into the blood and vital organs) in order to try and neutralise acidic wastes. The first buffers is the mildest response and the last is the most extreme. Depending on where you are on the scale, you will either be mildly ill to a "incurable" disease. Detoxing is simply ensuring that your body has the necessary materials (vitamins, minerals and nutrients) so that your body can effectively eliminate these built up acids in your system from poor diet and exposure to toxins. (Let me say, Ben Goldacre knows little to nothing about science. He is a hack)

Finally when your body is acidic, your body becomes home to large quantities of pathogens. That's because almost all pathogens require a anaerobic environment in order to survive. Similar to why you see mosquitos primarily around putrid water. The overwhelming majority of pathogens have cell walls that are positively charged. Since you say your a citizen scientist, I'm sure you know what would happen to a pathogen when it comes into contact with chlorine dioxide?!? That's why chlorine dioxide is approved in the US by the EPA for safely removing pathogens. Of course if you use too much, what happens is that your body wipes out huge amounts of pathogens and your liver becomes overwhelmed. When this happens, your body will have a Herxheimer reaction as your body tries to eliminate all the dead pathogens. There is a product with the same composition as MMS that IS APPROVED BY THE FDA. The only difference is the amount of sodium chlorite parts per million is lower so it is less effective.

I feel truly sorry for Rhys since the conventional approach to Crohn's disease is to try and suppress the symptoms as they crop up. This will not lead to a permanent solution to his problem since based on my description of his problem it is clear that the toxins (vaccines, antibiotics, etc) have accumulated around his colon. For a pharmaceutical company they are very happy because they now have a lifetime customer. But dumping more toxins into his body in the form of pharmaceuticals will not solve the problem. It will not lead to a very full life for him but I respect his decision and wish him well on his path.

John said...

Alice, I must say your grasp of how the human body works is extremely poor. First "why labels keep going on about "antioxidants" as a matter of safety as well as taste." as though it's something dangerous. It's the free radicals that attack atoms in the body and that are highly damaging to the DNA. Not the antioxidants. THEY REPAIR THE DAMAGE DONE BY FREE RADICALS!!!

Second, your body is comprised of 150 different types of cells, i.e.: skin cells, blood cells, nerve cells, etc that each have a different half-life of survival, and they constantly die and replace themselves throughout your whole life span. New cell generations are dependent on the building materials you fed. Your cells require the 90-plus nutrients that coming from nine different categories that are necessary to make the hormones, peptides, neurotransmitters and proteins for new cell growth and proper functioning of the body systems as a whole. If your missing any of these nutrients in your diet and/or either filling your body or exposing your body to the 24,000 toxins per day that on average your body is exposed to, the delicate balance which is indicated by your pH level is compromised (dropping in the acidic range) and your cells don't renew themselves properly and the communication between cells breaks down. Your body has 9 buffers (increase oxygenation, using amino acids or high pH body fluids or electrolyte buffers - calcium, magnesium, sodium and potassium, filter or eliminate through bodily elimination routes, manufacture bicarbonates, stealing minerals from other areas of the body, pushing acids to outer extremities and finally dumping acids into the blood and vital organs) in order to try and neutralise acidic wastes. The first buffers is the mildest response and the last is the most extreme. Depending on where you are on the scale, you will either be mildly ill to a "incurable" disease. Detoxing is simply ensuring that your body has the necessary materials (vitamins, minerals and nutrients) so that your body can effectively eliminate these built up acids in your system from poor diet and exposure to toxins. (Let me say, Ben Goldacre knows little to nothing about science. He is a hack)

Finally when your body is acidic, your body becomes home to large quantities of pathogens. That's because almost all pathogens require a anaerobic environment in order to survive. Similar to why you see mosquitos primarily around putrid water. The overwhelming majority of pathogens have cell walls that are positively charged. Since you say your a citizen scientist, I'm sure you know what would happen to a pathogen when it comes into contact with chlorine dioxide?!? That's why chlorine dioxide is approved in the US by the EPA for safely removing pathogens. Of course if you use too much, what happens is that your body wipes out huge amounts of pathogens and your liver becomes overwhelmed. When this happens, your body will have a Herxheimer reaction as your body tries to eliminate all the dead pathogens. There is a product with the same composition as MMS that IS APPROVED BY THE FDA. The only difference is the amount of sodium chlorite parts per million is lower so it is less effective.

I feel truly sorry for Rhys since the conventional approach to Crohn's disease is to try and suppress the symptoms as they crop up. This will not lead to a permanent solution to his problem since based on my description of his problem it is clear that the toxins (vaccines, antibiotics, etc) have accumulated around his colon. For a pharmaceutical company they are very happy because they now have a lifetime customer. But dumping more toxins into his body in the form of pharmaceuticals will not solve the problem. It will not lead to a very full life for him but I respect his decision and wish him well on his path.

Alice said...

Dear John,

1) SCREAMING AND CAPITALISATION at me does not convince me that you know any science, only that you think it effective to throw a tantrum.

2) I'm sorry you couldn't read my post properly but yes, I mentioned antioxidants as a safety matter because they supposedly clean up free radicals, because free radicals are supposed to be unsafe. Oxidising butter, for instance, as I mentioned, leads to a bad taste, which is one reason antioxidants are added to fat. Another reason is that the free radicals are supposed to be harmful.

3) Thank you for your reminders of all the complete rubbish peddled by people who think they understand how the body works. Can you provide any scientific references? Capitalisations and woo sites don't count.

Dr Aust said...

*Sigh* Where to start?

I'm afraid the reality about free radicals and antioxidants in the body is far more complicated than "John" seems to think. Free radicals are produced naturally in your body. They act (under some circumstances) as part of normal signaling mechanisms within and between cells. Sometimes they are produced in excess, at which point your body removes them.

Since free radicals are always around in your body, nature (or evolution) has given the body, and the body's cells, a whole range of mechanisms to remove free radicals. You DO NOT need to chomp antioxidant pills. Indeed, since oxidation/reduction in the body is controlled by so many in-built mechanisms, dumping in a bucket-load of exogenous antioxidants is at least as likely to do harm as good. It is like taking an exquisitely balanced homeostatic system and thumping it with a big mallet. Drinking bleach is that and far worse, as you will likely give your oesophagus chemical burns.

If you really want to make sure that your body has the raw materials it needs to run all its free-radical handling systems, eat a healthy diet with plenty of fruit and veg in it - and don't waste your cash on antioxidant supplements, or dangerous quack nonsense like MMS.

Coming on to the stuff about 'your body being too acid', that is just a complete load of rubbish. Your body has evolved to regulate your internal pH to within a few tenths of a pH unit. It does this via your lungs - breathing - and via your kidneys. What you eat, or drink, makes almost no difference. You can, though, make yourself more alkaline (temporarily) by hyperventilating for a few minutes. When you stop and start breathing normally - guess what? Your body pH returns to normal within seconds to minutes.

Hence Mark Burnley and my line:

"There's a really good way to keep your body's pH from getting "too acid".

Ready?

Breathe.

Breathe in. Now breathe out.

Now do it again.

And repeat.

And - would you believe it , this method is * absolutely 100% natural. *



PS More on body pH here.

PPS BTW, speaking as a grumpy old professional scientist with several published papers on oxidative stress, I would say that young master Goldacre talks good sense about science. I can't say the same for "John".

John said...

Dear Alice,

I'm confused. Where do I say that free radicals are not produced naturally in your body?!?
Where do I say you need to eat antioxidant pills?!? I'm pretty sure that you get anti oxidant FROM EATING THE RIGHT FOODS (that fortunately you realise later in your post).

Where do I say that one should use chlorine dioxide in what you call bleach (which I'm assuming from your post that you believe are used in high concentrations) would somehow address issues related to free radicals (which concerns problems with your body's cells)?!?

If you actually do a bit of reading you would find that the MMS protocol uses chlorine dioxide at a concentration of 1 ppm (whereas industrial bleach is at concentrations of 500 ppm or above) is considered perfectly safe. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569027/

Also if you did a little reading you would find that certain amino acids, purines, polyamines, iron and thiols (all of which are required for pathogen growth and survival) are highly reactive with chlorine dioxide.

If you did a bit of research you would find that nutrient density in foods has been dropping since the beginning of the use of chemical fertilisers. That's why people are chronically nutritionally deficient. Thus the need for supplements to ensure your body has all that it needs to stay healthy (including neutralising acids and eliminating them from your body).

I don't know what to say to your comment about your body being too acidic being a load of rubbish and what you eat or drink making no difference!?! If I understand you correctly, eating kebabs, fried foods, drinking pints makes no difference?!? Hmmm... I think you lack a great deal of knowledge about how your body functions. Your body does everything possible to keep vital organs as well as your blood in the proper pH range (for the blood it's 7.3). It will do this to the detriment of the other parts of your body. It will store acids in the form of fats, steal alkaline materials from your cells or bones to neutralise acids as well as push acids to the extremities of your bodies (i.e. joints). When this happens, your overall body will become acidic. You can see this by using pH strips and checking your pH level either by putting the strip under your tongue or via urinating on the strip when you wake up. If it drops under 7, you are most likely susceptible or already are ill.

As for your view on hyperventilating (i.e. increasing oxygen in the body), you might notice that this is one of the first things (i.e. buffers) your body does when your body becomes acidic (below pH 7). It might slightly raise your pH but if you remember that the pH scale is logarithmic. It takes about 3 or 4 times the alkaline material to compensate for a one level drop towards the acidic range. You would probably faint before you're able to compensate for a one level drop in your pH.

Alice said...

Now you're just making up things I've said, given that I never mentioned hyperventilation. Although you certainly sound as if you are doing that!

I am sure most of my readers know this, but no, MMS is not safe. Hence people being admitted to hospital after taking it, and it being banned in many countries . . .

Dr Aust said...

I think he's talking about my comment, Alice, and assuming it comes from you.

Dr Aust said...

PS

"...your overall body will become acidic. You can see this by using pH strips and checking your pH level either by putting the strip under your tongue or via urinating on the strip when you wake up. If it drops under 7, you are most likely susceptible or already are ill."

Errrm... no. Speaking as an old salivary gland physiologist (really), the pH of saliva tells you Seven Shades of F-all about your 'body pH balance'. It mainly tells you about the pH of your...saliva. [Gasp - who'd have thought?] And that, in turn, relates largely to salivary flow RATE, and also to what is going on in your mouth.

When you first wake up, pH in the mouth will be a bit more acid than if you measure it during the day because:

(i) salivary flow rate (which keeps pH in the mouth alkaline to neutral, saliva being on the alkaline side of neutral) will have been almost nothing while you were sleeping; and

(ii) bacteria that live in your mouth will have been busy overnight generating acid by anaerobic respiration without the acid being 'rinsed away' so much by salivary flow.

So a starter for ten: what will such a measurement tell you about 'whole body acid-base balance'?

A: Absolutely nothing. Zip. Zilch.

Hopefully it should be apparent by now to any neutral reader that these tests, and in fact the whole 'body too acid!' schtick, are a scam to sell you stuff.

More about the "Test your own pH" scams at the blogpost that I linked before.

Alice said...

Since John's comments have absolutely nothing to do with my (very old now!) blogpost, I'm not going to respond to them. However, anyone else is welcome to do so.

Anonymous said...

Oh non, MMS is still around!

http://youtu.be/5jY2yab0uLc